NBA secret scout nails description of Bargnani
When certain Raptors fans cannot accept legitimate criticism of the former No. 1 [overall] Draft Pick/2006, they should be pointed toward this specific assessment of his individual game, which includes Offense, Defense and Rebounding:
SI.com’s NBA Enemy Lines: An opposing team’s scout sizes up the Raptors
Andrea Bargnani has to become more “NBA-ized.” By that I mean he still has a lot of that European stuff to his game. He doesn’t get back fast enough defensively, he doesn’t get physical enough and he settles too much for the jump shot as a 7-footer. He should be more of an asset inside, especially as a rebounder, though I did see signs of him trying to do that last year. He hasn’t shown that he’s a real tough, hard-nosed guy. He’s very skilled and he knows how to play, but he needs to be more in tune with what it takes to be successful in the NBA.
Right now, Bargnani can’t defend any position other than the 5, so he has to get stronger and do his work early defensively rather than wait for his man to take position in the post and then try to guard him, because by then it’s too late. He doesn’t move his feet well defensively, and that needs to be addressed in order for him to take it to the next level and be a starting center for a playoff team. As a 4 man, he can’t guard the position at all. I guess he needs to model his game after Mehmet Okur, a perimeter-shooting center who can handle himself physically inside. I trust Bargnani as a shooter. If it’s not a highly contested shot, I feel like it’s going to go in. He has a great release, form and arc with great range and pretty good quickness to get the shot off.
———————————
Those with credible basketball experience are the ones who can see clearly what this young man’s specific strengths and weaknesses actually are, as a highly serviceable [back-up?] Center, in the NBA:
STRENGTHS
1. Has a high offensive skill level and knows “how” to play on this side of the floor.
2. A trustworthy shooter … but, only of shots which are not highly contested.
3. Good form on his perimeter shot with an adequately quick release.
WEAKNESSES
1. Doesn’t get back quickly enough in defensive transition.
2. Lacks NBA “physicality”, “strength” and “toughness”.
3. Not enough of an asset as a rebounder.
4. Cannot defend ANY position other than Center.
5. Fails to do “early work” defensively vs his individual check.
6. Fails to “move his feet well” on defense.
7. Cannot guard the Power Forward position at all.
not those who think that he is still capable of becoming a “franchise” player, as a perimeter-based Power [or over-sized Small] Forward.
———————————–
PS. As well, please take note that when a real life NBA scout describes what he actually sees when he looks at and assesses the abilities of an NBA player he DOES NOT include a single “game stat average” in that evaluation. 
Tags: Amir Johnson, Andrea Bargnani, Antoine Wright, Bryan Colangelo, Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade, Hedo Turkoglu, Jarrett Jack, Jay Triano, Jose Calderon, Marc Iavaroni, Marco Belinelli, Mehmet Okur, Mike D'Antoni, Rasho Nesterovic, Reggie Evans, Toronto Raptors
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Why do you have 3 points for strengths and 7 points for weaknesses? It’s as simple as Strengths: offense, Weaknesses: Defense and rebounding. He’s still learning the defensive game because he was yanked around to different positions constantly by Mitchell during his early career.
And I disagree that he can’t guard the 4 “at all”. Maybe not finesse 4′s, but I’d put him on Al Jefferson no problem.
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Marz,
Welcome aboard!
re: 3:7
His weaknessess outnumber his strengths, according to the items identified by the secret scout with which I concur.
——————————
re: O, D & R
It isn’t accurate to just say that his Offense is a strength, because it really isn’t. In general terms, only his perimeter shooting on Offense is a strength; while his overall Defense and Rebounding are weaknesses.
——————————
re: the reason his Defense is weak
This has nothing to do with the fact that he was shifted around to different positions working under the direction of Sam Mitchell.
Actually, it’s the exact opposte.
i.e. The main reason he was shifted around to different positions by Sam Mitchell was BECAUSE he was UNABLE to defend [and rebound] effectively at the first 2 positions at which he was tried [i.e. SF & PF], despite the rationale behind his initial selection by Bryan Colangelo, as an over-sized perimeter player.
——————————
re: his inability to guard the PF position
IMO, the secret scout’s take on this is 100% accurate; while yours is wrong.
——————————
re: Bargnani vs Al Jefferson
IMO, although Big Al happens to have a PF’s body this does not change the fact that he is very much a Center, who just happens to be unable to guard the PF position, as well.
—————————–
PS. I think I’ve read your comments elsewhere and, whether I agree or disagree with them, thought they were generally phrased in a constructive way. Keep On Truck’n
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:44 pm
The secret scout did NOT say “A trustworthy shooter … but, only of shots which are not highly contested.”
What was stated was that he felt the shot would go in if not highly contested.
You have inferred he only trusts him to take uncontested shots, which is not at all what was stated.
Another example of you seeing something that works for you and taking it to the extreme….poor poor “journalism”
October 22nd, 2009 at 2:46 pm
why do you no longer post on RR???
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Because RR has already heard the only thing Khandor has to say. Bargnani sucks, Bargnani sucks, Bargnani sucks. Alright, Khandor, we get it, Bargnani sucks. I’ve been following RR for a long time now, and it seems like every post Khandor makes says, “Bargnani sucks, stop liking Bargnani, you must understand the ways in which Bargnani sucks.”
There are a lot more things going on with the Toronto Raptors.
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:41 pm
From a Raptor’s fan pov (accepting the deficiencies), it is of much interest however whether Bargnani can keep improving on those dastardly Euro influences! One must concur I believe that there was growth in his game post Mitchell. It would also be of interest whether the secret scout thought there was improvement in his game since coming into the league or how much value other orgs. would put on Andrea’s potential going forward. BC obviously thinks there is much upside. And yes, he hasnt had many home runs evaluating talent in many acquisitions since coming to the Raptors.
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Let’s look at some of these again:
STRENGTHS
2. A trustworthy shooter … but, only of shots which are not highly contested.
What the scout said was that he trusts Bargnani to make shots that are not highly contested. Similar to what you said but you’ve put a negative spin on it by using “but”.
3. Good form on his perimeter shot with an adequately quick release.
This could be looked as two separate strengths. The scout’s actually wording is more suggestive of this.
WEAKNESSES
4. Cannot defend ANY position other than Center.
7. Cannot guard the Power Forward position at all.
These are the essentially the same weakness. It’s also kind of harsh saying that a player can only defend the position that he plays is a weakness. It’s why coaches spend a lot of time devising plays to create mismatches. If you were doing this list for Dwight Howard (and probably most of the centres in the league), would you put this down as weakness for him?
BTW, I’m not saying that Bargnani is a decent defender. He clearly needs to improve to become even a solid contributor on defense, but please be at least fair when you are counting strengths and weaknesses.
October 22nd, 2009 at 5:31 pm
[...] Don’t tell Jerry Buss, but Ron Artest(notes) says he’d play for $1 to be a Laker.PF: KSB. "Those with credible basketball experience" know Andrea Bargnani(notes) has a long way [...]
October 22nd, 2009 at 7:18 pm
[...] Don’t tell Jerry Buss, but Ron Artest(notes) says he’d play for $1 to be a Laker.PF: KSB. "Those with credible basketball experience" know Andrea Bargnani(notes) has a long way [...]
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:00 pm
hey khandor… i usually take what you say with a grain of salt, but seriously… what is with the “bitter hate” you always show when speaking of Il Mags? You honestly think he’s that bad? That he should be a benchwarmer?
Seriously dude, did you like ask him out on a date and you’re upset because he turned you down or something? I mean you sound like an upset ex-boyfriend or a guy that was shot down by a girl so all you can do is throw mud to make yourself feel better.
Listen, is he the be all, end all? No… at least not yet… but you honestly believe he is that bad? Why b/c he was a number one draft pick? Not his fault… well i for one, enjoy watching him play, watching his growth as a baller on this side of the world (as opposed to europe) and hope that he’ll take that next step he started to last year with his man on man D, weakside help and especially his glass cleaning.
So Mr. Shock Jock… we know how much you love the attention that you get when you publish blogs such as this, but if you really want to be taken seriously, be OBJECTIVE… and try not to bend quotes to suit your needs (as the other replies have stated).
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:27 pm
A recent RR poll says the ceiling for the talent of Il Mago (Bargnani) is higher than the ceiling of El Holdo Del Rocko (Bosh). Do you think that’s true in each phase of the game? I give Bosh rebounding but am not sold on defence and think that Bargnani may emerge this year as the player who is more dangerous on offence.
Again, this is about potential, not achievement. Thoughts?
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:42 pm
MCBR and shogunn,
The direct quote from “secret scout” reads like this:
“I trust Bargnani as a shooter. If it’s not a highly contested shot, I feel like it’s going to go in. He has a great release, form and arc with great range and pretty good quickness to get the shot off.”
This quote is composed of 3 sentences.
#1. I trust Bargnani as a shooter.
#2. If it’s not a highly contested shot, I feel like it’s going to go in.
#3. He has a great release, form and arc with great range and pretty good quickness to get the shot off.
#1 is a blanket statement.
#2 is a modifier, however, which places a distinct “limit” on the the exact type of shots that “secret scout” believes has a good chance of going in for Bargnani, i.e. [only] those which are not “highly contested”.
#3 is a three part comment which deals with different but related aspects of Bargnani’s “shot mechanics”:
i. his release process
ii. his form
iii. his arc
iv. his range
v. his quickness to get his shot off.
What I wrote, specifically, was this:
“STRENGTHS
… 2. A trustworthy shooter … but, only of shots which are not highly contested.
3. Good form on his perimeter shot with an adequately quick release.”
which means that STRENGTH 2 of mine speaks to #1 and #2 combined from “secret scout”; and, STRENGTH 3 of mine speaks to #3ii and #3v combined from “secret scout”.
Those who think that there’s some sort of distortion there, on my part, are free to hold that opinion if they wish, but it is unsupported by the facts.
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:05 pm
MCBR,
re: why do you no longer post on RR???
RR is a terrific site for Raptors fans. Since its inception, it has been supported and assisted by a plethora of individuals like me, and Fluxland, and FAQ, and Scott G., and Dave, etc. Just because I have chosen not to post comments there since the spring/early summer does not mean that I “no longer post comments there”, or that I will not be doing so again, at some point in the future. In particular, the site’s owner is a first-class individual for whom I, personally, have a great deal of respect.
IMO, RR does a great job posting links to Raptors-related material in the “Latest Web Articles” section.
If/when I resume posting comments there, it should prove to be a most interesting time in Raptorville.
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:18 pm
A.C. Smith,
1. Welcome aboard!
2. re: Because RR has already heard the only thing Khandor has to say.
If this is the only thing that you think I’ve had to say pertaining to Bargnani, since he’s come into the NBA, then it means you simply haven’t bothered to read closely what I’ve actually written.
Unfortunate as that might been, there is nothing which I can do about that.
re: Bargnani sucks, Bargnani sucks, Bargnani sucks.
The fact is … I have never ever said THAT about Andrea Bargnani.
re: Alright, Khandor, we get it, Bargnani sucks.
IMO …
First. It’s presumptuous of you to think that YOU speak for anybody else.
Second. Based on what you’ve actually written here … and, unfortunately … I don’t think YOU really do GET IT at all.
re: I’ve been following RR for a long time now, and it seems like every post Khandor makes says, “Bargnani sucks, stop liking Bargnani, you must understand the ways in which Bargnani sucks.”
If this is what you think then it only means that you haven’t really bothered to read closely what I’ve written on-line about the Toronto Raptors.
re: There are a lot more things going on with the Toronto Raptors.
I agree, with this specific observation, 100%.
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:29 pm
bendit,
Welcome aboard!
re: From a Raptor’s fan pov (accepting the deficiencies), it is of much interest however whether Bargnani can keep improving on those dastardly Euro influences! One must concur I believe that there was growth in his game post Mitchell.
The “growth” which you saw from Bargnani last season was associated with the removal of Jermaine O’Neal from the roster and the contribution of a player with the attributes of Shawn Marion, not the departure of Sam Mitchell.
Bargnani showed in his 1st season that he has the makings of a serviceable Big in this league with an offensive perimeter focus.
Although his defense and rebounding have improved over the past 3 seasons they remain sub-standard, however, and his rate of relative improvement in these specific areas fails to the show the learning curve associated with an elite level performer, at this stage of his career.
re: It would also be of interest whether the secret scout thought there was improvement in his game since coming into the league or how much value other orgs. would put on Andrea’s potential going forward.
Agreed. It would have been great to hear “secret scout’s” opinion about that specific topic.
re: BC obviously thinks there is much upside. And yes, he hasnt had many home runs evaluating talent in many acquisitions since coming to the Raptors.
Agreed … on both accounts.
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:49 pm
siggian,
Welcome aboard!
re: Let’s look at some of these again:
STRENGTHS
2. A trustworthy shooter … but, only of shots which are not highly contested.
What the scout said was that he trusts Bargnani to make shots that are not highly contested. Similar to what you said but you’ve put a negative spin on it by using “but”.
It’s important that role players have the ability to knock down uncontested shots.
However, it’s important that foundation players have the ability to knock down BOTH [A] uncontested AND [B] highly contested shots.
According to “secret scout”, Andrea Bargnani does NOT have this type of ability … and, I agree with this specific observation.
——————————
re: 3. Good form on his perimeter shot with an adequately quick release.
This could be looked as two separate strengths. The scout’s actually wording is more suggestive of this.
Agreed.
For me, however, these are two “separate but related points” concerned with Bargnani’s “shot mechanics”.
——————————
re: WEAKNESSES
4. Cannot defend ANY position other than Center.
7. Cannot guard the Power Forward position at all.
These are the essentially the same weakness. It’s also kind of harsh saying that a player can only defend the position that he plays is a weakness. It’s why coaches spend a lot of time devising plays to create mismatches. If you were doing this list for Dwight Howard (and probably most of the centres in the league), would you put this down as weakness for him?
4 and 7 are two separate weaknesses.
Let’s use Tim Duncan as an example.
The Big Fundamental is a Center who can defend opponent Centers but can also defend against each of the other positions on the floor if he is asked to by the design of the specific defensive scheme which Gregg Popovich is using in a specific game, including, for example, being required to [A] Switch Out vs Steve Nash in various Pick & Roll/Pop scenarios, or [B] checking a host of different PF’s in the league when playing beside a front-court team like David Robinson or Rasho Nesterovic.
As such, Timmy D does not suffer from either 4 or 7.
re: BTW, I’m not saying that Bargnani is a decent defender. He clearly needs to improve to become even a solid contributor on defense, but please be at least fair when you are counting strengths and weaknesses.
First. I see clearly that you are not saying that Bargnani is a good defender, IYO.
Second. Trust that I can also see clearly exactly what Bargnani’s specific strengths and weaknesses actually are, and am being objective [rather than subjective] when attempting to point them out to others.
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:03 pm
If that poll on RR isn’t the craziest thing I’ve ever seen, I’m not sure what is….
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:06 pm
shogunn,
Welcome aboard!
re: hey khandor… i usually take what you say with a grain of salt, but seriously… what is with the “bitter hate” you always show when speaking of Il Mags? You honestly think he’s that bad? That he should be a benchwarmer?
benchwarmer?
At no point did I say something like that.
re: Seriously dude, did you like ask him out on a date and you’re upset because he turned you down or something? I mean you sound like an upset ex-boyfriend or a guy that was shot down by a girl so all you can do is throw mud to make yourself feel better.
The fact is …
There’s no mud in what I’ve written here about Andrea Bargnani.
re: Listen, is he the be all, end all? No… at least not yet… but you honestly believe he is that bad? Why b/c he was a number one draft pick? Not his fault… well i for one, enjoy watching him play, watching his growth as a baller on this side of the world (as opposed to europe) and hope that he’ll take that next step he started to last year with his man on man D, weakside help and especially his glass cleaning.
1. Yes, he is that bad … on defense and in terms of rebounding.
2. I, too, hope that he improves a great deal in the years ahead.
re: So Mr. Shock Jock… we know how much you love the attention that you get when you publish blogs such as this, but if you really want to be taken seriously, be OBJECTIVE… and try not to bend quotes to suit your needs (as the other replies have stated).
Mr. Shock Jock?
First. It just so happens that a NBA “secret scout” has written a report for SI.com about the strengths and weaknesses of the Raptors players in which he identifies the same points of emphasis about Andrea Bargnani as those pointed out by me for the last 3 seasons. That right there is an objective fact.
Second. That same NBA “secret scout” has described Mr. Bargnani’s individual game in an accurate way, without including a single “game stat average”.
Third. Those individuals who are truly “NBA experts” see Mr. Bargnani for exactly what he is with eyes that are trained to be objective. It’s Mr. Bargnani’s “fans” who are being subjective in their analysis of his skill-set.
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:13 pm
Brain,
re: A recent RR poll says the ceiling for the talent of Il Mago (Bargnani) is higher than the ceiling of El Holdo Del Rocko (Bosh). Do you think that’s true in each phase of the game? I give Bosh rebounding but am not sold on defence and think that Bargnani may emerge this year as the player who is more dangerous on offence.
Again, this is about potential, not achievement. Thoughts?
First. “Potential” as a concept exists only in physics.
Instead of the word “potential”, IMO, the word “capacity” is far more accurate, when it comes to assessing the relative abilities of human beings.
Second. IMO, Bosh has a higher capacity for excellence in each phase of the game [i.e. O + D + R] than does Bargnani, although right now Bargnani’s ability as a perimeter shooter far exceeds Bosh’s.
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:15 pm
Scott G.,
Unfortunately, poll results which look like that simply show just how unsophisticated the Raptors fanbase is about the NBA game.
October 23rd, 2009 at 6:46 am
“First. “Potential” as a concept exists only in physics.
Instead of the word “potential”, IMO, the word “capacity” is far more accurate, when it comes to assessing the relative abilities of human beings.
Second. IMO, Bosh has a higher capacity for excellence in each phase of the game [i.e. O + D + R] than does Bargnani, although right now Bargnani’s ability as a perimeter shooter far exceeds Bosh’s.”
So you think that Bosh could become as good a shooter as Bargnani?
October 23rd, 2009 at 7:31 am
Brain,
re: So you think that Bosh could become as good a shooter as Bargnani?
Yes, he could … based on his capacity for excellence … although, at this stage of his career AND given what his actual strengths are, as a Center, this is highly unlikely to happen.
October 23rd, 2009 at 7:52 am
I hated Bargs as a 1st pick and wished we had traded down to get him instead.
I hated Bargs in his first few years, and hated all the talk of supposed “potential” that he would have.
Now, I don’t mind him at all. Not that I think he is great player, but he has shown improvement over the past year.
Will he continue to improve? Who knows? Only he can answer that, but, I do feel that he can at least eclipse what he did last year.
Does he deserve his contract? I don’t think it’s that bad considering how the NBA has overpaid for less talented players in the past.
October 23rd, 2009 at 8:15 am
Ragu,
1. Welcome aboard!
2. Those are solid opinions, on your part.
3. If it ever comes to needing to trade Bargnani, the $50.0 M contract which he has will NOT be a deterrent.
Although many unsophisticated NBA fans may have thought that players like Araujo, Moon, Kapono, Humphries, Ukic, Graham, etc., were almost untradeable … or, had little value … for the Raptors based on how poorly they fared with Toronto, astute observers always knew full well that they were far from that, as legitimate assets for an effective GM with the capacity to wheel & deal.
Unlike many others in Raptorville, I am someone who has always maintained that Bargnani is an effective role player with considerable value and imminently tradeable should Bryan Colangelo ever decide to go this route.
———————–
PS. Too many “regular” Raptors fans fail to realize what the Celtics actually did two summers ago to transform their team into a legit title contender. What Boston actually did was:
1. Retain the services of a very good and already-proven NBA head coach;
2. Hold onto their already-established franchise player [i.e. Paul Pierce];
3. Trade an upcoming top draft pick for a 2nd established franchise player [i.e. Ray Allen];
4. Include their younger burgeoning talent [i.e. i. Al Jefferson, ii. Ryan Gomes, and iii. Sebastien Telfair] in a major trade for a 3rd “stud” player [i.e. The Big Ticket];
5. Keep a bedrock player like Kendrick Perkins [C], as a building block for their future team;
6. Draft another young stud at the PG position [i.e. Rajon Rondo], who other teams over-looked/under-valued; and, then,
7. Filled out the remainder of its roster with very serviceable players with great attitudes who were committed to winning a championship above all else.
Those who think that Danny Ainge [GM] was operating without an over-riding Plan of Attack, based on his Basketball Acumen, simply do not know how the NBA actually works, or how a team needs to go about building a championship-winning organization, at the highest level of competition.
What “regular Raptors fans” need to do is spend some more time figuring out who on their team fits properly into the corresponding roles of Doc Rivers [i.e. Jay Triano?], Paul Pierce [i.e. Chris Bosh!] and Ray Allen [?], Kevin Garnett [?], and Al Jefferson [i.e. Andrea Bargnani!!!], etc., and less time putting down the 5th best player in the brief history of the team [i.e. CB4] and his designated running mate [i.e. El Matador].
October 23rd, 2009 at 9:34 am
I said “These are the essentially the same weakness. It’s also kind of harsh saying that a player can only defend the position that he plays is a weakness. It’s why coaches spend a lot of time devising plays to create mismatches. If you were doing this list for Dwight Howard (and probably most of the centres in the league), would you put this down as weakness for him?”
You said “4 and 7 are two separate weaknesses.
Let’s use Tim Duncan as an example.
The Big Fundamental is a Center who can defend opponent Centers but can also defend against each of the other positions on the floor if he is asked to by the design of the specific defensive scheme which Gregg Popovich is using in a specific game, including, for example, being required to [A] Switch Out vs Steve Nash in various Pick & Roll/Pop scenarios, or [B] checking a host of different PF’s in the league when playing beside a front-court team like David Robinson or Rasho Nesterovic.
As such, Timmy D does not suffer from either 4 or 7.”
First off, Tim Duncan is a certain Hall-of-Famer and only age has possibly moved him out the ranks of the rare franchise players. He may still be. There is no chance for Bargnani to get into the hall. Clearly, TD can guard multiple positions and that is one of the things that makes him special. But he is the exception. There aren’t that many C/PF players who can do both jobs well defensively and offensively.
Secondly, I’ll bring up my Dwight Howard argument again. He can’t play any position but center. Are you going to list his not playing any other position as a weakness?
October 23rd, 2009 at 9:36 am
“Scott G.,
Unfortunately, poll results which look like that simply show just how unsophisticated the Raptors fanbase is about the NBA game”
the proper word would be uneducated not unsophiscated. you may be uneducated with regard to BBALL but you can still be extremely sophisticated.
Please do not throw out words to criticize the raptrors fanbase when obviously you do not understand the basis of the definition.
I chose Bosh in that forum however, if I chose Bargnani, how would that make me unsphisticated?!
You sound overly egregious when call out raps fans like that.
All the best
October 23rd, 2009 at 10:32 am
siggian,
1. You are absolutely correct when you observe that Timmy D is a very special player in the history of the League.
2. re: Dwight Howard vs Andrea Bargnani
Howard has the ability to guard other positions on the court successfully and, IMO, you would never get a real life NBA scout to make an observation that, in his expert opinion, D12 does not have this specific ability.
e.g. Superman CAN guard the PF position, in addition to being able to check other spots effectively in different types of “Switch Out” scenarios, based on his unique level of explosive quickness, size, strength, reach, etc.
What Clark Kent struggles still with specifically on the defensive side of the ball is “Hedging Out” vs Pick & Roll/Pop actions … which is also an atrocious aspect of Bargnani’s individual game.
However, two key differences between these players are:
1. Howard’s struggles vs P & R/P’s is NOT based on a lack of lateral quickness … which is part of Bargnani’s problem … but, instead, on a lack of mental concentration; and,
2. Howard was NOT drafted initially as an over-sized perimeter player who SHOULD vae been able to check other positions on the floor rather than JUST a power-based Center.
October 23rd, 2009 at 10:52 am
Ben,
———-
re: the proper word would be uneducated not unsophiscated. you may be uneducated with regard to BBALL but you can still be extremely sophisticated.
Please do not throw out words to criticize the raptrors fanbase when obviously you do not understand the basis of the definition.
I chose Bosh in that forum however, if I chose Bargnani, how would that make me unsphisticated?!
You sound overly egregious when call out raps fans like that.
All the best
———-
1. My use of the word “unsophisticated” in that specific context does not apply to being an “unsophisticated” person, in a general sense.
Instead, it means only being unsophisticated in the highly specific “ways and means” [etc.] of the NBA game.
2. It was not my intention to appear “overly egregious” towards Raptors fans.
3. Since “sophistication”, in a sense, is derived from one’s “education” about a specific subject/topic/envronment/etc. … the use of the word “uneducated” might well have applied, in this case, as well.
I, however, chose to NOT use THAT word, in this instance.
4. All the best to you, also.
October 23rd, 2009 at 11:35 am
This is so ridiculous. You qualitatively decide to breakdown his weaknesses into more pieces, so he’s a bad player?
What about his ability to space the floor? Draw fouls on opposing bigs who aren’t used to guarding the perimeter? His above average passing ability? His intelligent use of the pump fake to either get to the rim or get fouled? His ability/handles to put the ball on the floor?
There, five more “strengths” he now has more strengths than weaknesses…
The scout’s analysis took 15 seconds to say. He’s probably given about that much time as well. So to take that and some how extrapolate anything more than “he needs to become a better rebounder/defender is ridiculous. Let’s also not forget that as a three point shooter, he’s by nature, not going to be in position to get as many offensive rebounds. Also, with the lack of defense on the wing of COURSE Bargnani is gonna look stupid. He ALWAYS needs to be thinking help defense first. You try being Calderon’s defensive insurance…
For fun, let’s do the same “scout analysis” for Bosh:
Strengths:
1) Above average rebounder
2) Good midrange/high post face up game
3) Good FT%
Weaknesses:
Pees his pants when Garnett is in the same building
1) Cannot guard any other position than PF
2) Doesn’t move feet well on defense
3) Has no post up game at all
4) Passes horribly out of double teams
5) Relies too much on his outside (mid range) shooting
6) Disappears in clutch/late game situations
7) Is soft and gets beat by high energy or physical players
Oops, looks like Bosh is a horrible player… the number of weaknesses is greater than the number of strengths!
October 23rd, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Raptor Cowboy,
re: This is so ridiculous. You qualitatively decide to breakdown his weaknesses into more pieces, so he’s a bad player?
1. I didn’t say that I think Bargnani is a “bad” player.
2. The primary reason Bargnani should not be thought of as a “good” player is not because of any decision on my part to breakdown his weaknesses into more pieces than a similar assessment of his strengths.
——————————————————–
re: What about his ability to space the floor? Draw fouls on opposing bigs who aren’t used to guarding the perimeter? His above average passing ability? His intelligent use of the pump fake to either get to the rim or get fouled? His ability/handles to put the ball on the floor?
There, five more “strengths” he now has more strengths than weaknesses…
If you’d like to take that approach … do you not also believe that his individual game could be further broken down into EVEN MORE specific pieces than just the main ones listed here, in terms of his rebounding, defensive and other offensive deficiencies?
[IMO, if you're being honest AND have a high level of Basketball Acumen yourself ... then the fortunate answer to that question happens to be, "yes".]
——————————————————–
re: The scout’s analysis took 15 seconds to say. He’s probably given about that much time as well. So to take that and some how extrapolate anything more than “he needs to become a better rebounder/defender is ridiculous.
If this is what “secret scout” had to say in 15 secs … do you really think that the ratio of “good:bad” would be substatially changed if, let’s say, he was given 30 minutes, instead?
IMO, it would not.
——————————————————–
re: Let’s also not forget that as a three point shooter, he’s by nature, not going to be in position to get as many offensive rebounds.
i. His lack of rebounding prowess would not be as big a problem if he was playing a different position other than Center … unfortunately, this is the position he can check best, in the NBA game and the one at which he’s stuck for the foreseeable future.
ii. A lack of offensive rebounds is not Bargnani’s major problem in the rebounding phase of the game.
——————————————————–
re: Also, with the lack of defense on the wing of COURSE Bargnani is gonna look stupid. He ALWAYS needs to be thinking help defense first. You try being Calderon’s defensive insurance…
The perceived “lack of defense on the wing” is NOT the source of Bargnani’s defensive problems. The source of Bargnani’s defensive problems is within Andrea himself.
——————————————————–
re: For fun, let’s do the same “scout analysis” for Bosh:
Strengths:
1) Above average rebounder
2) Good midrange/high post face up game
3) Good FT%
Weaknesses:
1) Cannot guard any other position than PF
2) Doesn’t move feet well on defense
3) Has no post up game at all
4) Passes horribly out of double teams
5) Relies too much on his outside (mid range) shooting
6) Disappears in clutch/late game situations
7) Is soft and gets beat by high energy or physical players
Pees his pants when Garnett is in the same building
Oops, looks like Bosh is a horrible player… the number of weaknesses is greater than the number of strengths!
Unfortunately, the 7 items which you’ve listed as Bosh’s weaknesses are NOT in fact his specific weaknesses at all.
BTW … if you’d sincerely like to discuss what CB4′s specific weaknesses are then just let me know and I’ll be happy to do that with you.
October 23rd, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Khan — how is Bargs’ deal not an impediment to trading him? Yes, he can be a valuable role player, but not many “valuable role players” make 10/per… I know the whole “matching salaries” thing, but it would seem to me that we’d have to take a dog of a contract in return, or an expiring deal, neither of which are really building blocks.
October 24th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Scott G.,
re: Khan — how is Bargs’ deal not an impediment to trading him?
In short:
A. “There’s a sucker born every minute.” – David Hannum/PT Barnum
B. “One man’s hamburger is another man’s steak.” – Anonymous
There will always be at least one other GM in the NBA willing to take Bargnani off the Raptors’ hands down-the-road because Andrea “fits” their specific needs … e.g. as a salary dump, as an expiring contract, as a “sweet-shooting” perimeter big, as a trade exception, etc., since there are a number of poor executives in the league and/or teams in worse/better shape financially than Toronto.
C. As long as you don’t mind the perception of “having lost a trade in the short term”, in order to set your franchise on the correct course for the long haul … e.g. the trade I proposed at the end of the 2007-2008 season which would have seen the Raptors deal TJ Ford to Philly in exchange for Rodney Carney … it really isn’t very difficult to get rid of a specific player from your roster, in the NBA marketplace.
October 26th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Ok… so I suppose you’re saying that the big contract didn’t make trading him impossible. But, do you agree that he is a far more attractive player as trade bait at 5-7M, than at 10M?
October 29th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
u r quit today anti rapti….. what no thoughts….. check raptor republic. u r spoken of often…. lol
October 30th, 2009 at 8:48 am
rob,
It’s always interesting when others misinterpret what I write/have to say about the Raptors.
In my experience, those with a sound understanding of the game usually get it right.
Take what you will from that simple fact.