khandor’s sports blog

62 Responses to “Early look at NBA rosters: Eastern Conference”

1. FAQ Says:
   August 17th, 2009 at 6:53 pm

   Khandor Khandor Khandor ….. The Raptors cannot be rated as ‘possible’ playoff contenders when they only have 3 core players left on their roster … Bosh, Bargs, Jose.

   The rest of the team is new players, unproven players and last year’s scrubs. That 3 starters and 12 question marks, notwithstanding Hedo.

   Triano only has 90 days to gel this bunch of ‘players’ to December. Do you think he can pull of such a miracle? If it looks like a total collapse is imminent, would Bosh ask for an immediate trade rather than go down the tube on a totally rebuilt team with unknown player potential?

   Total rebuild … that’s what it is … and the pieces are not that great either.

2. CanuckX Says:
   August 17th, 2009 at 8:14 pm

   FAQ, please rank your teams and why. Who would you move up? Philly with Kapono and the Gangsta? Indy? Please. Miami hasn’t done anything, so that’s good, right? Oh wait, you lost Moon – who is quite an effective player (my view).

   Many teams have made significant changes. Jack not proven? Hmm.
   Evans not proven at what he does? Hmm. Rasho has been part of a championship team. COMPLETELY unproven. Turk going deep in the playoffs – chump.

   Let’s see the stub of the big bet your making against a Raptors playoff appearance.

3. CanuckX Says:
   August 17th, 2009 at 8:18 pm

   Hey Khandor, welcome back.

   You were high on Amir Johnson, correct? Thoughts on the trade?

4. FAQ Says:
   August 17th, 2009 at 9:15 pm

   CanuckX … Khandor has positioned the Raptors at 9th and out of the playoffs. What will be interesting is how Triano will organize this team on offense and defense, and how he will play his bench rotations.

   There are so many unknowns on this Raptor roster, that it will be impossible to determine if they can play competitively until they are thrown into the NBA pit to see if they sink or swim. It’s going to be brutal on the players and the coach in particular. This situation is rife with the potential for total failure.

   Imagine … only 3 core players left over from last year’s squad … and essentially 12 new players with unknown team chemistry. Everybody likes to talk about the individual players, but that in no way defines team play potential. It’s a wait and see situation for the rebuilt Raptors.

5. CanuckX Says:
   August 18th, 2009 at 6:29 am

   FAQ – a lot of teams made significant changes. Doesn’t mean you will not be successful. Its an exercise in best guesses – given the player’s previous history on how well they fit into a team concept. There are no absolutes of course. I’m just confused by your post. Raptors keep the core and upgraded INDIVIDUAL players – yes, but the CHANCES are better. Will they be a top 4 team – of course not. Will they MOST LIKELY improve – I would personally estimate that they will – new players or not.

6. khandor Says:
   August 18th, 2009 at 7:19 am

   FAQ,

   It’s important to clarify a few different things, including:

   #1.

   Tier 1 has 3 teams that could finish in any order

   Tier 2A has 7 teams that could finish in any order and/or, possibly, slide down to Tier 2B, should circumstances fail to go in their favour this year

   Tier 2B has 2 teams that could finish in any order and/or, possibly, move up to Tier 2A, should circumstances go particularly well in their favour this year

   Tier 3 has 3 teams that could finish in any order and/or, possibly, move up to Tier 2 should circumstances go particularly well in their favour this year

   #2.

   It’s an illusion to think that the Raptors are a much better team, at this point during this off season:

   A. When comparing the current roster to ONLY last year’s team [13th/EC, 4th/Atlantic]
   B. Without comparing the current roster to the other 14 teams in the EC
   C. Without comparing the current roster to the:

   i. 2005-2006 Toronto Raptors [27-55, No. 1 overall Draft Pick]
   ii. 2006-2007 Toronto Raptors [47-35, 3rd/EC, 1st/Atlantic]
   ii. 2007-2008 Toronto Raptors [41-41, 6th/EC, 2nd/Atlantic]

   and,

   D. Without comparing the current roster to the other 29 teams in the league, as well.

   #3.

   IMO, the current roster is AT LEAST where the team SHOULD HAVE BEEN during the 2007-2008 season, with the talent level that existed on the 2006-2007 squad, and given the positive work of then interim GM, Wayne Embry, during the otherwise disasterous 2005-2006 season.

   If the team can hold onto Chris Bosh following this next campaign, and then, either:

   I. Rid themselves of Andrea Bargnani [in return for other pieces]; or,

   II. See major improvement in Andrea Bargnani’s individual game;

   there is NO LEGITIMATE REASON for the Raptors to not succeed in a major way in Toronto by becoming a perennial Top 4 team in the EC.

   ——————————————————–

   Unlike other NBA observers, I have always maintained that:

   * The Raptors have indeed had “the pieces” to eventually form a consistently Top 4 team in the EC, IF THEY ONLY HAD THE BASKETBALL ACUMEN REQUIRED TO ACCOMPLISH THIS TASK

   * The Raptors most egregious sin of all … at least, to this point in their existence as a NBA franchise … has been their repeated WASTE OF OPPORTUNITIES to become a consistently Top 4 team in the EC, due to their mismanagement of available resources and their FAILURE TO ACTUALLY PRIORITIZE WINNING A LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP, since Isiah Thomas left town, Lenny Wilkens was fired and, then, Glen Grunwald was dismissed by MLSE as the team’s GM.

7. khandor Says:
   August 18th, 2009 at 7:36 am

   CanuckX,

   1. Thanks for the welcome back.

   2. Like Dave initially mentioned on his nbaroundtable, a possible pairing of Chris Bosh and Amir Johnson is quite simply intriguing for those of us who truly understand how the NBA game works.

   IMO, the following 5-man unit:

   Calderon + DeRozan + Turkoglu + Johnson + Bosh

   has a serious possibility of being very good this season, if it’s coached and then used properly by the Raptors’ braintrust.

   So, too, does a 5-man unit which looks like either one of these:

   Belinelli + DeRozan + Turkoglu + Johnson + Bosh

   Jack + DeRozan + Turkoglu + Johnson + Bosh

   A lack of potentially good/solid 5-man units has NOT been the major problem with this franchise since MLSE assumed full control of the team.

   i.e. The problems with the Raptors over the years have been on MISMANAGEMENT OF AVAILABLE RESOURCES and A FAILURE TO PRIORITIZE ACTUALLY WINNING A LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP, neither of which have corrected as yet, IMO.

8. khandor Says:
   August 18th, 2009 at 7:39 am

   FAQ,

   ——————————————————–
   re: “There are so many unknowns on this Raptor roster, that it will be impossible to determine if they can play competitively until they are thrown into the NBA pit to see if they sink or swim. It’s going to be brutal on the players and the coach in particular. This situation is rife with the potential for total failure.

   Imagine … only 3 core players left over from last year’s squad … and essentially 12 new players with unknown team chemistry. Everybody likes to talk about the individual players, but that in no way defines team play potential. It’s a wait and see situation for the rebuilt Raptors.”
   ——————————————————–

   FWIW, I happen to agree with every word you wrote there.

9. Raps Fan Says:
   August 18th, 2009 at 10:38 am

   welcome back man!

   I don’t see why the Raptors wont win 41-45 games next season (i prematurely picked 45 games at my first glance at the schedule).

   The best thing the raptors can hope for is an improvement in Bargnani’s game where a) he will actually contribute more (rebounds and defense) and b) maybe someone will offer us some quality pieces in return for a 7 footer who has range and offensive gifts.

   I can’t help but to think about that Bargnani for Howard rumour last year, that would have been a great fit for the raptors as howard can score and has lock down defensive skills on the perimeter. the latter being something the raptors are still missing.

10. Toronto Raptors Linkage for August 18th from 08:04 to 11:41 :The AltRaps Blog Says:
    August 18th, 2009 at 11:03 am

    [...] Early look at NBA rosters: Eastern Conference – While the few teams at the top continue to get richer … continue to spin their wheels. [...]

11. khandor Says:
    August 18th, 2009 at 11:17 am

    Raps Fan,

    1. Thanks for the welcome back.

    2. When you get beyond the elite group of BOS, CLE & ORL there are several teams with the capacity to finish anywhere from 4th-to-12th in the EC this coming season, as things stand right now with the make-up of their respective rosters.

    Although the configuration of this current Raptors team appears to be better than last season’s, it is by no means a foregone conclusion that the on-court performance this season will be substantially improved, relative to the other 14 teams in the EC, given the changes some of those other teams have made as well.

    That said, however, there is once again at least a realistic expectation for this specific group of Raptors to form a highly competitive team this season, on a night to night basis, with a solid chance to be in the mix for a #4-8 playoff spot.

    If DeRozan can develop into a top flight NBA #2/OG and they are able to resign Chris Bosh next summer, the long term future for the team will still hinge on the growth & development of Andrea Bargnani … or, whoever else they can get back in exchange for him.

    IMO … there’s a good deal to like about the Raptors current list of players:

    1 Chris Bosh [solid veteran All-Star]
    2 Jose Calderon [solid veteran starter]

    3 DeMar DeRozan ? [youngster with upside]
    4 Marco Belinelli ? [youngster with upside]
    5 Amir Johnson ? [youngster with upside]

    6 Hedo Turkoglu [solid veteran starter]

    7 Jarret Jack [solid veteran back-up]
    8 Rasho Nesterovic [solid veteran back-up]
    9 Reggie Evans [solid veteran back-up]
    10 Antoine Wright [solid veteran back-up]

    11 Quincy Douby [unproductive but still young]
    12 Sonny Weems [unproductive but still young]
    13 Patrick O’Bryant [unproductive but still young]

    14 Marcus Banks [unproductive veteran]

    WILDCARD – Andrea Bargnani?

12. Steve Says:
    August 18th, 2009 at 11:48 am

    Hate to break it you guys, but Bargnani is not as bad defensively as your making him. He is certainly no worse then Bosh, especially when you consider how easily people blew by bosh and how easily he was backed down. I sure hope he is putting on some weight this offseason because he was sad in his low post defence. Also, didnt Bargnani lead the team in blocked shots? Thats not saying much on this team, but what does that say for Bosh and his ability to be a prescence on the inside?

    Offensively, i think we saw last season the arsenal that Bargs possesses and its far more diversified then what Bosh can offer. Bosh is good at facing up and itting a mid range jumper. I think this season, if he gets his touches, Bargs will show us even more. He already can post up better then Bosh, hit the open jumper better then Bosh and was really driving to the basket last season.

13. Kevin Says:
    August 18th, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    Everyone seems to be focusing on how difficult it will be for the team to gel. I am not disputing that the transition may be difficult, but let’s not forget Triano’s background…he has repeatedly had to form cohesive units out of various players with his national and international ball experience.

14. khandor Says:
    August 18th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

    Steve,

    1. Welcome aboard!

    2. Intelligent contributors are always a plesant addition here.

    3. I happen to disagree with your assessment of Andrea Bargnani’s defensive and offensive capabilities, in comparison with Chris Bosh.

    I am not someone who uses a plethora of basketball-related statistics in an effort to “try and prove the rightness” of my opinions about the game.

    Although, from time to time certain stats can indeed serve a useful purpose when attempting to improve one’s understanding of a specific situation, in general, they are not to be relied upon when determining the quality of a basketball player.

    e.g. Bill Russell is the greatest basketball player of all-time … and it doesn’t matter one iota that any other stat might say otherwise, in comparison to the central role he played with the Boston Celtics dynasty.

    For the most part … as the old saying goes … stats are for losers.

    W’s, on the other hand … especially those earned in the games that matter most … are what I’m concerned with in the world of professional sports.

    re: what you’ve said comparing Bosh & Bargnani

    For example, if I had just:

    * 1 “post-up” opportunity to score the ball
    * 1 “mid-range” opportunity to score the ball
    * 1 “perimeter drive-to-the-basket” opportunity to score ball
    * 1 “off-the-ball” shot blocking opportunity to stop an opponent’s score
    * 1 “low-post-on-the-ball” defensive opportunity to stop an opponent’s score
    * 1 “perimeter defensive” opportunity to stop an opponent’s score

    I would gladly choose to have CB4 in this role rather than Andrea Bargnani.

    In fact, the only aspect of the game for which I would choose Bargnani over Bosh is if I had but:

    * 1 “stand still catch & shoot open 3PT shot” to score the ball.

    Hopefully Bargnani will continue to develop his entire game and one day in the future become a better basketball player than Chris Bosh. If he does, it will make the Raptors a most formidable NBA team.

15. khandor Says:
    August 18th, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    Kevin,

    Triano’s background as a successful coach for the Canadian men’s national team will indeed help his efforts in this regard … especially, if he would be fortunate enough to have a player like Steve Nash to lead his current group of Raptors.

    Unfortunately, however, Triano does not have such a player on this current roster.

    When Triano coached his national teams WITHOUT Steve Nash those specific teams also failed to get the job done.

16. Steve Says:
    August 18th, 2009 at 1:51 pm

    I am confident that anyone who is responsible for running the USA summer camp is also capable of bringing this raptors team together, Triano will be fine. My point Khan was that defensively both players have deficincies, and that everyone seems to be putting the blam on Bargnani, but the fact is, in my opinion, Bosh is nothing special on D, and is marginally better then Bargnani, if at all. Also, i think players like Wright, Jack and DeRozan will drastically help out on the perimeter defence, which i believe was the real problem. The perimeter D last year was horrible, and was the real reason why Bosh and Bargs looked worse. Bosh still needs to beef up, as Bargnani did last summer. Also according to jay Triano on the morning show on the fan 590 he has added some more bulkémuscle, which will hopefully serve him better this year.

17. khandor Says:
    August 18th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    Steve,

    1. Responsibility for coaching the USA developmental team in the summer as it helps the main squad to prepare for future events has little to do with implementing successful “team building” concepts.

    When it comes to being familiar with the X’s and 0′s of the international game Jay Triano is well-equipped for this task as an NBA coach whose roots are tied to his experiences with the Canadian men’s national team program [first, as a long-serving player and, then, as a coach].

    2. If you want to look exclusively at the defensive side of the ball, I have no problem with that perspective.

    A. Chris Bosh is a mediocre individual Low Post defender versus power-based Big Men like Shaquille O’Neal.

    In every other aspect of both Individual and Team defensive skills, however, Chris Bosh happens to be a superior player to Andrea Bargnani.

    B. Whether Chris Bosh qualifies as being something “special” on defense is not the point, now is it?

    3. The perimeter defensive ability of last year’s group of players was not the main source of the Raptors defensive troubles.

    The main source of the team’s defensive problems last season were rooted in the increased minutes afforded to Andrea Bargnani AND the fact that Chris Bosh was not allowed to function as the team’s Center with a capable PF [i.e. in terms of Rebounding & Defense], as his principal front-court running mate, in conjunction with a reduction in the MP solid defender/rebounder types like Jamario Moon, Kris Humphries and Joey Graham, in favour of Jason Kapono, and the exchange of Jermaine O’Neal for Rasho Nesterovic.

18. Steve Says:
    August 18th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    The reason why Chris Bosh canèt be the teams centre is because he cant even bang with the majority of the PF in the league, nevermind the centres. Im sorry but i refuse to accept that Bosh was a sperior interior defender then Bargnani, especially when Bargs had 20 more blocks then CB4 in 500 less minutes of court time. He was able to body people up and put up resistance against anyone trying to muscle him, same cant be said for Bosh. We are all entitled to our own opinion but i know im not the only one who feels that way.

19. khandor Says:
    August 18th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Steve,

    1. I agree that a lot of others may happen to think your way, as well. Doesn’t happen to make them right.

    2. There is a “physical” way to play Low Post defence in the NBA and then there is a way to play “smart, tactical, athletic [i.e. supple and quick] and also physical to a certain degree only” individual and team based Low Post defense in the NBA that is consistent with championship squads over the past 50+ years.

    You can decide for yourself which type of Low Post defense was in fact played by the greatest basketball player of all-time.

    3. I do not mind at all being in agreement with the greatest basketball player/coach of all-time when it comes to understanding how effective Low Post defense actually works in the NBA while being in disagreement with the majority of today’s Raptors fans.

20. Steve Says:
    August 18th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    I would argue that Bargnani plays a combination of both physical and a tactical athletic form of defence to a higher degree of effectiveness then Chris Bosh in the low post. Also, while we may be wrong in our assessment, whoès to say what your arguing in right. We are all entitled to our opinions and I stand by mine.

21. khandor Says:
    August 18th, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    Steve,

    1. At this point in his career, Bargnani exhibits very little “tactical” awareness of any sort whatsoever on the defensive end of the floor.

    2. Who’s to say that my assessment is right?

    Have you taken the time yet to look around my site?

    e.g. At some of the previous entries devoted to noting the difference between how the Raptors have played during specific possessions during games of the past when Chris Bosh has been on the floor working as the team’s primary Center and Andrea Bargnani has been relegated to the bench.

    The NBA game is played possession by possession … with each possession not being of exactly equal value with each another possession, in stark constrast to what certain New Age Stats Gurus and other observers will try their best to tell you is actually the case with the modern game.

    “Stats averages” are virtually meaningless when it comes to determining which teams are going to win specific games vs those who will lose those same games and what aspects of play were actually responsible for determining the W-L outcome of an already completed game.

    FWIW … know that, in general, I don’t rely on others to verify that what I see and say about how the game is played properly, best, effectively, etc., but that it’s others who in fact rely on me instead to verify for them that what they happen to think they understand to this point about the game is actually accurate.

    As you noted correctly, however … you are certainly entitled to hold a different opinion than mine.

22. Steve Says:
    August 18th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    Why would i bother, i can assure this is the last time i post. I’ve never met someone so arrogant and full of themselves, yet you are void of any reasoning, all your arguements are “its this way because I say so”. For someone who likes to refer to NBA greats, i will use Shaq, the most dominant centre in the NBA, as a refference point who labelled Bosh the “RuPaul of bigmen” and that he would make him quit the next time they met. Could Shaq have been complimenting Bosh for his tough post defence and solid positioning? Or perhaps he was inferring that Bosh was soft and really put up no resistance. Toughness and positioning are part of defending the interior, both of whcih Bosh sorely lacks.

23. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 5:54 am

    Steve,

    What I may be void of is the willingness to repeat my explanations for newbies repeatedly.

    I asked you a question in the third sentence of my prior comment.

    There was no answer to this question in your subsequent reply.

    The “reasoning” you claim to be looking for is already included in other posts on my site or in the comment threads associated with those posts. Perhaps it’s you who is really the arrogant individual here who is unprepared to do what’s necessary for himself but wants someone else to provide those details for him when he asks a question that’s been asked and answered multiple times before.

    You are free to refer to the words of The Big Aristotle if you wish, in his mysogynistic attempts to criticize the play and the “look” of Chris Bosh, if you wish, that’s a choice for you to make.

    I, on the other hand, will continue to make reference to the way in which an under-sized Big Man like The Great Bill Russell actually chose to play the Center position for the Celtics’ Dynasty.

    PS. Want to know what’s ironic, Steve? It’s a person who has ABSOLUTELY ZERO proof for the merit of a statement like this bolded part of what you wrote above:

    “Toughness and positioning are part of defending the interior, both of whcih [sic] Bosh sorely lacks.”

    that claims the need to have someone like me “justify” my observations which are documented on a possession-by-possession basis on my site from the play-by-play of actual Raptors games. In fact, it’s quite hilariously ironic, when you really stop and think about it for a second or two.

    PPS. Newbies should take the time to read the comments of individuals like Scott G. and Flux and Raps Fan and Dave, etc., on this site before venturing to make a claim that is unsupportable from the actual possession-based data associated with Raptors games.

24. CanuckX Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 8:24 am

    Khandor, I agree with many of your positions, but Bosh at Center is not well supported.
    You bring up a great player – one that played over 40 years ago! Look at the size of centers then and today.
    Bosh cannot handle the biggest centers in the league. He can barely handle most PFs.

25. CanuckX Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 8:27 am

    From an earlier post you said “there is NO LEGITIMATE REASON for the Raptors to not succeed in a major way in Toronto by becoming a perennial Top 4 team in the EC.”

    Name a legitimate trade that would get us there?! Sometimes you have to play the hand you’re dealt and make the most of us. Perhaps some year a little white ball will land in our favour when the “next” Lebron enters the NBA, but there is no magic bullet to jump to the top overnight.

26. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 9:41 am

    CanuckX,

    re: Bosh at Center

    Au contraire.

    In fact, this a well supported perspective … try checking the different game recaps I’ve provided on this site over the last two years … and not just based on a comparison between the incomparable Mr. Russell and a 24 year old CB4.

    There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Center is by far Chris Bosh’s best position on the basketball court … based on how the man has actually performed at this position to this point in his NBA career.

    Just because Chris struggles defending vs some Power Forwards … in terms of stopping them from scoring high numbers of points … this DOES NOT necessarily mean that either:

    A. He must therefore struggle in a similar way if he’s assigned to check designated opponents at the Center position.

    [i.e. Although that might seem to be a logical perspective to hold about the game, those who know and understand it thoroughly would tell you otherwise]

    B. The team he plays for must therefore struggle winning games with a lower degree of frequency when he’s assigned to check designated opponents at the position as opposed to PF’s.

    I will give you just one brief example:

    If the Raptors were playing the Celtics last year which of these two 5-man units would you think has the better chance of succeeding defensively vs the group of Rondo, Allen-R, Pierce, Garnett & Perkins:

    Scenario I
    i. Calderon + Parker + Marion + Bosh + Bargnani

    or,

    ii. Calderon + Moon + Graham + Humphries + Bosh

    What I happen to know about the game says that the answer is line-up ii … which has Bosh at C/Garnett, Humphries at PF/Perkins, Graham at SF/Pierce, Moon at OG/Allen-R and Calderon at PG/Rondo.

    Scenario II
    i. Calderon + Parker + Marion + Bosh + Bargnani

    or,

    ii. Calderon + Moon + Graham + Humphries + Bosh

    What I happen to know about the game says that the answer is line-up ii … which has Bosh at C/Perkins, Humphries at PF/Garnett, Graham at SF/Pierce, Moon at OG/Allen-R and Calderon at PG/Rondo.

    Scenario III
    i. Calderon + Parker/Moon + Marion + Bosh + Bargnani

    or,

    ii. Calderon + Parker/Moon + Graham + Marion + Bosh

    What I happen to know about the game says that the answer is line-up ii … which has Bosh at C/Perkins, Marion at PF/Garnett, Graham at SF/Pierce, Parker/Moon at OG/Allen-R and Calderon at PG/Rondo.

    IMO, in general, those who might think that Bosh & Humphries or Bosh & Marion would not have been a superior combination defensively for last year’s Raptors team than the front-court duo of Bargnani [C] & Bosh [PF] simply do not understand how, in fact, defense [and especially rebounding] actually works in reality in the NBA game.

    In the entire NBA the ONLY Center who Chris Bosh would lose the individual match-up advantage against … i.e. considering Offense, Defense & Rebounding … would be Tim Duncan.

    This is simply not the case when CB4 is made to line-up at the PF position.

27. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 9:47 am

    CanuckX,

    re: Raptors as a Top 4 team in the EC

    Not sure exactly why you are asking me about a specific “trade proposal” that the Raptors might need to make in order to accomplish this goal … as I made no mention of the need for such a future trade to make this possibility real.

    ————————————–

    re: magic bullets that work overnight

    I am a proponent of building a championship team gradually over time working from a well-devised and coordinated plan which involves:

    1. Drafting high calibre players [Main & Support];
    2. Trading for high calibre players [Main & Support];
    3. Signing Free Agents as high calibre players [Main & Support]; and,
    4. Securing the services of a high calibre head coach [plus assistants].

    based on a 1st-class level of Basketball Acumen.

    I am not a supporter of “Kool-Aid” distribution or “magic overnight success” pills.

28. John Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 10:17 am

    Wow from reading these posts it seems as though the host of this site really struggles with accepting other viewpoints. Khan, in the battle of who is more arrogant between you and Steve, you win hands down. Why should anyone trust your data, you have no first class basketball accumen, you’re just some regect running a blog. I didnt even want to lower myself to posting, but i somehow got sucked in, especially when i read how you compare Bill Russel to Bosh, when the two should never even be mentioned in the same breath. Bosh is a below average defender at best, and probablly the worst interior defender on the team. You can insult me and call yourself an expert, like you do everyone else that doesnt agree with you, but there is a reason why he is reffered to as RuPaul and Manute Bol and NOT Bill Russel.

    ———————–
    Edit: John, your first comment was submitted under the name of “Steve”. Know that you will need to keep a consistent moniker, if you want to be able to post comments on my blog. I will take the time to change your other comments submitted today to “Steve” as well but from this point forward you will need to submit them initially as “Steve” yourself.

29. CanuckX Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 10:35 am

    Khandor, will all due respect you gave one example – and I agree in that one case! The Celtics. Garnett who’s a) old b) offensive game is on the decline c) is very similar in size to Bosh. In this case I’ll give you it.

    How about Dwight, Shaq, or Yao as a few examples.

    There is some doubt. As we doubted your comments about Michael Curry understanding the game and how great Joe Dumars was. The doubt I had when you said on the Iverson/Billups trade:

    “It shows the character they have and their level of commitment to winning.

    In the NBA, today, Joe Dumars … is the new Jerry West.”

30. CanuckX Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 10:36 am

    “I made no mention of the need for such a future trade to make this possibility real.” You have consistently proposed we trade Bargnani as a partial means to achieve the goal.

31. CanuckX Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 10:42 am

    “I am a proponent of building a championship team gradually over time”
    So we agree. What off season changes would you have made. We can always go back many years with all kinds of criticism. But in THIS off season, what actual moves would you have made?

    You backing Joe Dumars last year is hurting a bit here to be frank. Iverson was well past his prime, turnover prone and his already low FG% plummeted.

32. Steve Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 11:07 am

    …along with the fact that Dumars traded away a piece that has propelled the Nuggets into contender status and has left Detroit picking up scrubs like Charlie V and Ben Gordon. For someone who likes to take cheap shots at Colangelo whenever he can and praise Dumars, what do you have to say for his last few moves and he’s shaped his team?

33. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 11:40 am

    CanuckX,

    re: Dwight, Yao and an aged Shaq

    Players of this ilk simply do not have what it takes to WIN the individual match-up advantage versus Chris Bosh … here’s the key … when CB4 has the opportunity to play as the Center for his team.

    vs Dwight
    - they cancel each other out because Chris struggles guarding Howard on the block AND Dwight struggles guarding Bosh anytime he is in a face-up situation or away from the block entirely
    - they are a very good match vs one another in terms of rebounding & shot-blocking

    vs Yao
    - they cancel each other out because Chris struggles guarding Ming on the block AND Yao struggles guarding Bosh anytime he is in a face-up situation or away from the block entirely
    - they are a very good match vs one another in terms of rebounding & shot-blocking

    vs Shaq [at this late stage of his career]
    - they cancel each other out because Chris struggles guarding O’Neal on the block AND O’Neal struggles guarding Bosh anytime he is in a face-up situation or away from the block entirely
    - Bosh is a superior rebounder and shot-blocker

    ————————————————-

    I will repeat it one more time for others to fully digest.

    The ONLY Center in the entire NBA today who Chris Bosh actually “loses” the individual match-up advantage against is Tim Duncan. This is simply not the case at the PF position.

34. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    CanuckX,

    re: Joe Dumars as a Jerry West type of executive

    1. On trading for Mr. Iverson

    Joe D made a decision to fundamentally change a team that he had won a NBA title with and had taken to the Conference Final for 6 consecutive years by trading Chauncey Billups.

    IMO, what he tried to do last season with the Billups/AI trade was remain in the playoff picture, while retaining a puncher’s chance to make the conference finals, yet again … if things actually gelled with The Answer in their line-up … and beginning the re-build of the Pistons, based upon the increased salary cap flexibility he would have going into this summer.

    Trying to remain a perennial playoff team in the midst of a re-build is a difficult task the likes of which only a handful of current & former top GM’s, like Mr. Logo, for example, are capable of pulling off.

    2. On firing Michael Curry

    If I recall correctly, Mr. West was the GM in LA when the Lakers won a NBA Title under Paul Westhead and, then, within a very short period of time, responded to the wishes of Magic Johnson and promptly replaced that coach with Pat Riley after the signs were there early on that Westhead was no longer the best person for this job, if the Lakers were going to succeed in a big way again in the immediate future.

    Just because a top notch GM doesn’t win the NBA title every year or makes an error in judgment from time to time doesn’t mean that he is not one of the very best practicioners in the game today … WHEN HE ALREADY HAS 1 NBA TITLE, 1 LOSS IN THE FINALS, AND A RUN OF 6 CONSECUTIVE TRIPS TO THE CONFERENCE FINALS TO HIS CREDIT.

    It is going to be very interesting to see how things pan out with the Pistons over the course of, say, the next 10-15 years.

    At this point, at least, I have no problem standing by my belief that Joe D. is of a similar calibre as GM in this league to a man of Jerry West’s ability.

    Time will tell if my perspective is right or wrong.

35. CanuckX Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    vs Dwight in the playoffs (you agree that this where the rubber hits the road):
    Bosh shot 39.6% from the field. Now I do not recall how much Dwight guarded Chris – do you have this data?

    Shaq scores an average 30.5 pts against us last year – had his way with all our defenders. 1 block on avg. Shot 76.5% against – us not bad. Bosh scored 19.5 points against PHX, avg 1 block
    You have the possession by possession data – what does it say one on one?

36. CanuckX Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    “Time will tell if my perspective is right or wrong.”

    In this case you were wrong – at the time you said that the Pistons would be 2nd in the Eastern Conference.

    And a reader probably pointed out at the time and was absolutely correct:

    “———————————
    re: THE PISTONS ARE FALLING APART. Dumar’s losing it.
    ———————————

    ROTFLO” < your response. Well the team did fall apart. Wasn’t so funny.

    How can you defend your argument that AI was going to make them 2nd in the East when they were not even CLOSE? That was a call for the year, not 10 to 15 years out!

    And you dislike Bargnani, but isn’t Charlie V is in the same mold?
    http://dberri.wordpress.com/2009/07/26/who-was-the-most-overrated-in-2008-09/

    Your man Dumars just signed Charlie V (I have issues with both players – the point being is Dumars may not be making the best decisions in my mind). And how will Rip and Gordon co-exist? They both demand the ball.

37. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    CanuckX,

    re: the Raptors need to trade Bargnani

    As you know already, I am someone who believes in the basic tenets of String Theory, and that each and every shift in the universe … whether big or small … is in fact somehow inter-connected.

    1. I have said in the past that the Raptors had at least two viable options to improve their team’s performance in a substantial way, moving forward, relative to Andrea Bargnani:

    i. Shift him into the role of the Back-up Center to Chris Bosh;

    or,

    ii. Trade him for parts that are a better fit for their team, building around the foundation blocks of Bosh & Calderon.

    2. When the Raptors roster looks like this:

    PG: Calderon, Ukic & Banks
    OG: Parker, Douby
    SF: Marion, Graham & Kapono
    PF: Bosh, Humphries, Mensah-Bonsu & Jawai
    C: Bargnani, O’Bryant & Voskuhl

    it’s a slightly different set of circumstances, to a situation when their roster that looks like this:

    PG: Calderon, Jack & Banks
    OG: DeRozan, Belinelli & Douby
    SF: Turkoglu, Wright & Weems
    PF: Bosh, Evans, Johnson
    C: Bargnani, Nesterovic & O’Bryant

    Which is not to say that I do not still think a Bargnani trade could/would be very capable of pushing the Raptors to new heights this season and beyond but only that the needs of this new roster configuration might turn out to be [A] similar, or [B] very different from the previous year’s edition[s], depending on how this almost totally re-vamped group fits together when it actually hits the court, given the plethora of moving parts.

    Know as well, that the present “Bargnani trade” situation is further clouded by the new contract extension he signed earlier this summer that puts his dollar/trade value in a different category than it was before and now carries with it a “PPP” designation [according to ESPN's NBA Trade Machine].

38. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

    CanuckX,

    * Bosh’s FG% vs Orlando in a playoff series matters not … at least, in this type of comparison … unless he was playing at the Center position for the bulk of that time vs Howard.

    * Likewise, Shaq and Bosh’s offensive numbers when Toronto played Phoenix last season matter not … at least, in this type of comparison … unless Bosh was playing at the Center position for the bulk of that time vs Shaq AND Shaq was also being FORCED to check Bosh in return because the Raptors were using CB4 in the pivot alongside an under-sized PF who would have been an even worse individual match-up for a behemoth like Shaq to try to guard on the defensive end of the floor.

39. Steve Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    The foundation blocks are Bargnani, Hedo and Calderon and the player that needs to be traded is Bosh. The Raps need to approach Golden State and trade Bosh for Randolph and Biedrins. bargnani can slot over to the 4 and Biedrins will operate at the 5. This will improve their interior defence with Biedrins and Bargnani posing more of a shot blocking prescence and more resistance against any centre trying to operate out of the post. This would likely also improve their rebounding as well.

40. Steve Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    Why doesnt it matter? it surely does matter because Bosh was afraid to go inside against Howard. This would indicate that they are not equal as you would have people believe. Shaq and Howard will dominate Bosh on both ends of the floor in a one on one matchup and its been proven in meaningfull games against Howard. Funny how it doesnt matter when Howard clearly dominated Bosh and pretty much proved you to be wrong, which wouldnt be the first time, despite what you claim.

41. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    CanuckX,

    re: the 2008-2009 Pistons

    IMO, Detroit’s problems last year were part and parcel to the risk that Joe D. took when he decided to trade one of his foundation players in order to move forward better in the years to come.

    Could they have finished 2nd in the EC last season if they hadn’t traded Billups?

    IMO, yes they could.

    Could they have finished 2nd in the EC last season if they had traded Billups AND things gelled with their team and The Answer?

    IMO, yes they could.

    Given the subsequent decision to fire Michael Curry, it would seem to be the case that Joe D. feels that at least some of his team’s problems making the necessary adjustments last season were rooted in the ability of MC to get the job done like a top notch practicioner in that field.

    Given his wealth of experience as both a top notch player and executive, I’m prepared to give Joe D. the benefit of the doubt in this regard.

    Unfortunately for both AI and the Pistons last year he wasn’t able to give their team what was necessary to remain one of the best teams in the EC during 2008-2009.

    Has Joe D. continued to re-build his team this summer?

    IMO, yes, he has.

    ————————————————

    re: the 2009-2010 Pistons

    Richard Hamilton is not a player who demands the ball.

    If Detroit decides to use a 3-guard rotation of Stuckey, Hamilton and Gordon … similar to the original Bad Boyz use of Zeke, Dumars and The Microwave … these three players should have little trouble co-existing on the their team.

    Ben Gordon is not the same player as The Answer.

    Charlie Villanueva is not a similar player to Andrea Bargnani.

42. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    Steve/John,

    If you ever hear a NBA coach like Mike Krzyzewski, or Mike D’Antoni, or Nate McMillan, or Phil Jackson, or Gregg Popovich, or Jeff Van Gundy, or even Kevin O’Neill and/or Sam Mitchell, for example, refer to Chris Bosh as “RuPaul” or “Manute Bol” then … and only then … would I suggest that you might just want to pay close attention to such commentary as an accurate description of what type of Big Man CB4 happens to be in the landscape of the Association.

    ——————————-

    Learn to distinguish better next time when exactly a comedian like the Big Aristotle is attempting to “poke the bear” a little for his own amusement purposes in return for a perceived slight he felt was sent his way by an off-hand remark from Chris Bosh which pertained to Shaq’s own predisposition to “camping out in the paint” seeming at-will without getting called for a 3 second violation.

43. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    Steve,

    ———————————————————
    re: The foundation blocks are Bargnani, Hedo and Calderon and the player that needs to be traded is Bosh. The Raps need to approach Golden State and trade Bosh for Randolph and Biedrins. bargnani can slot over to the 4 and Biedrins will operate at the 5. This will improve their interior defence with Biedrins and Bargnani posing more of a shot blocking prescence and more resistance against any centre trying to operate out of the post. This would likely also improve their rebounding as well.
    ——————————————————–

    Bargnani has yet to perform in a way that would justify designation as a foundation player for the Raptors.

    Hedo is 30 years old and has yet to earn recognition in the league as an All-Star player or, more importantly, an end-of-year “All-League player”, or in fact perform any individual aspect of the game which would properly classify him as one of the very best players in the Association at the position he plays.

    I agree that Calderon is a one of the Raptors’ foundation players.

    I can certainly appreciate the positive skills which Mr. Biedrins brings to the table as a competent #5/C in this league.

    Unfortunately, however, he is not the “problem-solver” who the Raptors need; in as much as Chris Bosh is NOT the main “problem” this team has had, as the #5/C.

    When Bosh played as the Center last season with someone other than Bargnani or O’Neal beside him the Raptors were a highly competitive team … especially, given the other roster short-comings that existed without playing A-Parker as the main Back-up PG, giving wasted time to players like J-Kapono and W-Solomon, and having cast-off a solid back-up Center like Rasho Nesterovic in exchange for a poor-fit player like Jermaine O’Neal.

44. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    Steve,

    ———————————————————
    re: Why doesnt it matter? it surely does matter because Bosh was afraid to go inside against Howard. This would indicate that they are not equal as you would have people believe. Shaq and Howard will dominate Bosh on both ends of the floor in a one on one matchup and its been proven in meaningfull games against Howard. Funny how it doesnt matter when Howard clearly dominated Bosh and pretty much proved you to be wrong, which wouldnt be the first time, despite what you claim.
    ———————————————————

    It doesn’t matter for a very simple reason.

    i.e. Without Howard checking Bosh, as Bosh is also checking Howard … then, these two players are NOT actually involved in a 1-on-1 individual match-up in that specific game to begin with.

45. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    Steve,

    ——————————————————–
    re: …along with the fact that Dumars traded away a piece that has propelled the Nuggets into contender status and has left Detroit picking up scrubs like Charlie V and Ben Gordon. For someone who likes to take cheap shots at Colangelo whenever he can and praise Dumars, what do you have to say for his last few moves and he’s shaped his team?
    ——————————————————–

    Joe D. has:

    * 2 consecutive NBA titles, as a player
    * 1 NBA TITLE, as a GM
    * 1 NBA FINALS Loss, as a GM
    * 6 consecutive trips to the EC Finals, as a GM

    to his credit.

    Bryan Colangelo has NONE of these accomplishments to his credit.

    ———————————–

    From my POV, it should be very interesting to see how exactly the Raptors and Pistons teams continue to develop over the course of this next season and the years ahead.

46. CanuckX Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    Khandor,
    You were wrong and its documented. You also claim “my observations which are documented on a possession-by-possession basis on my site from the play-by-play of actual Raptors games.” But then you decline to provide this data to answer the question. I did not keep play by play data, but attending those playoff games, Howard DID guard Bosh often and owned him. You said they cancel out – so the best way to measure it is head to head data. Which you claim to have to support your view. Why not share it. First hand obv *seems* to contradict your view, but the data will tell us, won’t it?

    If you’re interested in revisionist history (you bragged about Curry, Dumar and AI in the past – look it up), then I’m not interested in your site. You made fun of posters that accurately stated the trade would be disastrous – but they ended up being absolutely correct.

    It is the poor carpenter who blames his tools (all your excuses).

    I was interested before in some of our discussions, but changing the answers doesn’t sit well with me. As does ignoring key questions. It is my last visit to your site. Good luck, you have a decent knowledge base, but you’re also very wrong sometimes. By admitting it, you would be able to improve. Its really too bad, you have potential to be good one day.

47. Steve Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    CanuckX why bother, he will never admitt he was wrong, even though we all know he made the prediction about the Pistons. Its a black and white issue, that Khan will try and backtrack on. He made the prediction, was terribly wrong, and refuses to acknowledge it. Pathetic!

48. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    CanuckX,

    1. Hopefully you will choose to visit my blog again. You’ve shown yourself to be someone who makes intelligent comments, whether you agree or disagree with my perspective. If not, that’s a choice for you to make.

    2. If you think, however, that I have somehow “changed my anwers” from the past, I’d sincerely appreciate YOU doing the research by going through my site to locate those specific instances for me, as it’s my belief that I have not done this in any way [at least, not intentionally].

    re: the Pistons prospects after trading for Iverson

    Without searching back through each of the individual posts and comments which I’ve made myself, I can recall stating at that time that the Pistons were attempting to accomplish three distinct goals this past season:

    i. Maintain their position as a playoff team;

    ii. Give themselves a legit shot at still advancing to the EC Finals; and

    iii. Set themselves up for a summer of increased cap flexibility this off season.

    IMHO, to think that the Pistons were “failing apart” last season was simple folly.

    The fact is that Joe D. accomplished all three of these goals, even though his team sank into the #8 spot in the EC playoffs and he then fired Michael Curry.

    When he traded Billups, advancing to the EC Finals or the NBA Finals or in fact winning the NBA title last season no longer functioned as the PRIMARY Goal for the Pistons.

    Now, skip ahead to this summer’s NBA Draft and free agency period.

    When I take a look at the acquisitions made by Dumars, thus far:

    Washington OG/SF
    Daye/OG/SF
    Summers/SF/PF
    Jerebko/SF/PF
    Gordon/OG
    Villanueva/PF
    Kuester/Coach

    it doesn’t seem to me as though the Pistons are in fact falling apart in the least.

    ——————————–

    What was I wrong about last year’s Pistons team?

    * I thought Michael Curry would be able to do a better job than he did.

    * I thought Allen Iverson had matured enough as a person to realize fully the opportunity he was presented with last season to resurrect his career with Detroit and by accepting “whatever” role the team outlined for him, help the Pistons efforts to advance deep into the EC playoffs.

    Personally, I would not have traded any of the Pistons marquee players last season if I was their GM, as I wholly agreed with Chauncey that their team from the previous year was in fact better than the Celtics, if not for the unfortunate injury he sustained against the Orlando Magic [which is what he was later quoted as saying at some point last season after getting traded to Denver].

    The fact that I disagreed with Joe D., however, has no bearing on the level of respect that I have for the man, as a GM in the league with the credits he has to his name and his accomplishments as a former great player in the NBA.

    IMO, Joe rolled the dice last year knowing that he was still going to accomplish the goals he had set for his team’s short and long term future … and that is something which sets him apart in book, whether I agree with him or not, when it comes to evaluating the championship capacity of the team he started last season with.

    ——————————-

    re: the possession by possession data on this site for specific past Raptors games

    What’s visible on my blog is what’s available for public comsumption. If you’re a regular reader like Scott G., for example, you would have most likely come across this sort of individual game analysis/material at some point and remarked, either:

    A. Hey, this is interesting stuff;

    or,

    B. This is too small a sample size to statistical relevance, so go away and don’t bring it up again.

    It’s all there in black and white for those with an interest in this type of material.

    I don’t do it for every game on my blog. That would simply be too onerous.

    You can count on me doing it again for select future games, however, as it is a part of what I do from time to time when formulating the opinions which I have about the NBA environment and the players/coaches who dwell there.

    From what I recall during that Raptors/Magic playoff series, however:

    - the Raptors employed a variety of different looks defensively including playing Zone D, using Nesterovic on Howard, using Bosh on Howard, using Bargnani at a number of different positions [one of which was #5/C, on defense], etc.

    - Orlando did not use Howard to guard Chris Bosh, as the Raptors rarely [if ever] put the Magic in a situation where the #3 seeded team had no other viable option but to do just that [e.g. by using Bosh/5 & Hump/4 together, or Bosh/5 & Moon/4 together, etc.]

    If I get the chance later on today, I will go back and see if I did a possession by possession analysis for any of those games during that series and then placed it in an entry on my blog.

49. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    Steve [and CanuckX],

    ——————————————————–
    re: CanuckX why bother, he will never admitt he was wrong, even though we all know he made the prediction about the Pistons. Its a black and white issue, that Khan will try and backtrack on. He made the prediction, was terribly wrong, and refuses to acknowledge it. Pathetic!
    ——————————————————–

    If you’re able, trust that I would appreciate nothing more than you locating where exactly you can find me making some sort of “prediction” that the Pistons WILL finish as the 2nd best team in the EC during the 2008-2009 season [regular season or playoffs] sometime after they made the Billups/Iverson trade.

50. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    CanuckX,

    re: Character and commitment in Motown

    I see no prediction in there. Do you?

51. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 4:39 pm

    CanuckX,

    re: The Answer for the Pistons

    This can’t possibly what you’re trying to make reference to? Can it?

    If so, I stand by that analysis of last year’s Pistons team … and it’s ability to reach the perch beside the Celtics last season IF they would have been able to SHIFT their line-up to what I was suggesting for them at that time.

    Unfortunately, however, the Pistons were not able to implement this line-up on a regular basis as AI was unable to perform in that exact role when he attempted to come back to their team from dealing with his back injury.

52. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    CanuckX,

    re: Since the Dyessman re-cometh

    I see no prediction there. Do you?

53. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    CanuckX,

    re: The Answer for the Pistons: Option 2

    This can’t possibly be what you’re TRYING to make reference to? Can it?

    [If so ... then, please, go ahead and identify "the prediction" which you think you see there in black & white?]

54. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    CanuckX,

    re: What Mr. Big Shot meant to the Pistons

    This can’t possibly be what you’re talking about? Can it?

55. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 5:04 pm

    CanuckX and Steve,

    As I’ve said …

    Please go right ahead and point out where exactly it is you think I might have made a prediction that said the Pistons were in fact going to finish as the 2nd best team in the EC last season, sometime after making the Billups for Iverson trade.

    As best I can find, I made no such prediction.

56. Dave Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    I thought Chris Bosh defended Dwight Howard fairly well in the playoffs two years ago. He did well in one-on-one situations and defended the low post well.

    When Bosh got into trouble it because the perimeter players where allowing dribble penetration with players like Jameer Nelson and Hedo Turkoglu where coming down the lane for easy scoring opportunities … forcing Bosh to come over and help. Once Bosh helped, Hedo + Jameer, picked apart the cracks regularly finding Dwight for easy baskets inside or by throwing up runners in the lane over Bosh while Howard had a free path to the offensive glass for an easy offensive rebound and putback.

    It was the perimeter defense that caused the most problems for Chris Bosh while defending Howard. But in one-on-one situations and in post defense, I thought Bosh handled him well.

57. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    CanuckX,

    Here are the two specific blog entires which I made pertaining to the Orl/Tor playoff series from 2007-2008:

    Game Two – Raptors @ Magic … post mortem

    A winning line-up for the Raptors vs the Magic

    Not a great deal of data to look at there but, FWIW, at least you can get some idea of what I was thinking and seeing about the goings-on in that series … re: the individual match-ups between these two teams … both, before and after Game 2 was played, if it’s of genuine interest to you.

    ——————————————————–

    In addition …

    Here is my …

    NBA Playoffs Preview [2007-2008],

    and the …

    Game 1 Full Play-By-Play and Box Score

    Game 2 Full Play-By-Play and Box Score

    Game 3 Full Play-By-Play and Box Score

    Game 4 Full Play-By-Play and Box Score

    Game 5 Full Play-By-Play and Box Score

    When I look at the data available there, it doesn’t seem to me as though the Raptors lost that series on account of Chris Bosh being beat up in his individual match-up advantage/disadvantage at the Center position vs Dwight Howard.

58. khandor Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    Hi, Dave.

    Thanks for providing your input here.

59. Scott G Says:
    August 19th, 2009 at 9:11 pm

    Agree with Dave. DH12 is nowhere near an unstoppable force with the ball in his hands, and certainly NOT more than CB4 can handle. The only place CB4 struggles to contain DH12 is on the glass. And, if I recall correctly, CB4 put up some good numbers that series as well, on the offensive end.

    Here’s the key point I think Steve is missing — although CB4 is a little weaker than would be ideal, and therefore sometimes can’t “bang” as much as he’d ideally be able to do, he is far quicker than other centers in the L, and therefore they have a hard time containing him. Since, at bottom, quickness is more important than strength when it comes to hoops, CB4′s advantage in quickness far outweighs his disadvantage in strength. Said otherwise: other centers have a far harder time stopping CB4 than he does stopping them.

    Moreover, few centers in the L are very good on the offensive end, period. Having the opposing team run their offense through their center in a misguided effort to “take advantage” of CB4 just plays into the raps’ hands by playing away from the other strengths that team might have.

60. khandor Says:
    August 20th, 2009 at 11:40 am

    Scott G.,

    Thanks for providing your input here, as well.

    Hopefully idividuals like Steve [and to a degree CanuckX] take your words to heart.

    From my POV, what many ["just"] fans do not seem to understand and value appropriately is the importance of “Relative Quickness at the Position Played”, in the game of basketball and specifically as it relates to the individual match-ups within the NBA version … pertaining to each of Offense, Defense & Rebounding.

    For example, in his heyday, what truly separated a behemoth like Shaq from all others on the planet today … as well as every other Center who has ever played the game … was [past tense] his simply astounding level of explosive quickness, at his immense size, relative to ALL others at that position.

    “Height”, on its own, has always been vastly over-rated in hoops.

    Same with “speed”, “strength”, “vertical ups” and even to a certain degree “the execution of certain fundamental skills” … in comparison with such key components as RELATIVE QUICKNESS AT THE POSITION PLAYED, BBALL IQ, and REBOUNDING ABILITY [which, in fact, is intrinsically linked/intertwined with each of the first two].

    At its true essence … It’s a team game of relative quickness, agility and stability … i.e. physical, mental, emotional and spiritual.

61. Devon Anderson Says:
    April 7th, 2010 at 8:07 am

    Interesting post, was wondering if you would permit me to link to it in a blog post i am currently creating for my own website? Devon Anderson

62. khandor Says:
    April 7th, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Devon,

    1. welcome aboard!

    2. Link away.

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